Food Chain / Order of Hyssop Gong Show! (Slacker List)

Bruni · Post by **Bruni** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 9:59 pm

Hi all.

I am ok now ?

Bacal - Bruni

Lucky Strike · Post by **Lucky Strike** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 3:57 am

Heatmiser wrote:Also: Lucky Strike: Xbowman has not uploaded in a week. Again, not acceptable for an OH member. If keeping up with the reqs for OH is too demanding, then perhaps its time to take one of your guys out? Something to think about anyway. I'd rather you step up and get yourself out if its too much to handle, rather than have management do it for you with a removal order.

First of all, I want to be sure and say that all the chain managers are doing a great job and you should all be commended.

Second of all, I want you to know that this post isn't intended to be hostile, but rather a discussion point. I'm not really happy that the chain managers have the attitude expressed above and I think we should try to clearify some things.

Third of all, Lucky Strike was failing quota (admittedly totally unacceptable, but now passing) Note: this was for less then 24 hours.

Forth of all, I checked Xbowman's status last night and he was passing, now he isn't. Therefore, its less then 24 hours.

(1) Lets get some hard core rules with the "grace periods" built in. I think we have them already (more or less) but I personally would like some clarification. Further, I want to know whats expected and what I have to do. This falls into two areas:

(A) Quota: It is my understanding that we have to pass up 12 million a week based upon a rolling 3 week period. If we are down 3.5 million (under discussion) then we are failing and may be removed. May??? Based upon what? Whether the manager got laid the night before and is in a good mood or not? I think the rule should be that you have 24 hours to SUBSTANTIALLY reduce your quota or you MUST be removed. The only exceptions would be a pre-approved situation. Obviously, if you signed on to report (and therefore show as failing) you are in game and around somewhere. I think a 24 hour period is reasonable. Lucky Strike got his 'black mark" for failing quota within hours of him failing. Give me a little chance to make it up ... and I did.

The problem is that with this system, I don't know how much I need to make up (or even IF I need to make anything up) unless I post. I posted and got gonged for failing quota.

Note: "Substantially Reduce" as used above, is intentionally not defined. I'm not exactly sure what it means.

(B) Uploads: I understand that people need to upload on a "regular" basis. We need a definition of "regular" ... or at least I do. I think once a week is acceptable (although certainly not the best scenario). Again, my suggestion is you have 24 hours from when you are showing "upload" to post or you MUST be removed. I play at least 6 different toons and I don't think I should have to upload every day with the toons in the chain ... its just unreasonable and simply pointless.

Summary: Lucky Strike was failing quota ... I made it up in less then 24 hours. Last night I hunted well over 165 million XP and next time I post (even if I don't hunt anything for a week) I'll still be passing quota. My opinion is 24 hours is reasonable.

Xbowman has been showing upload for less then 24 hours. Not sure if he's passing quota or not. If not, I will stay online tonight until he is.

I am passing up at least my 12 million on each character and I don't think its too demanding to continue to do so, but I do think its unreasonable to require constant updating and to be passing if I can make it up QUICKLY.

No one has suffered any loss of XP as a result of any of my actions.

Again, this is not intended to be insulting, hostile or anything like that, but more an expression of my opinion. Thank you.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 3:57 am

Yes, Bacal is in good shape now.

Qaz · Post by **Qaz** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:02 am

If i remember correctly we are expected to upload at least every other day....but I could be wrong.

Lucky Strike · Post by **Lucky Strike** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:07 am

Qaz wrote:If i remember correctly we are expected to upload at least every other day....but I could be wrong.

I don't think thats fair or really has any point whatsoever. If I'm passing quota what's the different how often I upload?

Also, please note that Xbowman has upload and is passing.

luang · Post by **luang** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 7:09 am

I think, Lucky Strike, that the grace period is pretty clear now. We've already had this discussion (I was one of those that were vehemently reacting).

The posts that Heat makes, are the start of the grace period.

If you are on the slacker list, it does not mean you will be removed immediately. He is giving you a heads-up that you are in some kind of trouble.

The actual removals will only start at sunday following the posting of the slacker list.

I believe Heat does not have the means/time to check how long you have been failing; he just looks at the list, and takes everyone that is not in compliance. This means that both hardcore slackers and occasional tresspasser will be on that list.

I am greatly appreciating Heat's 'service' - it's like a little alarm clock that tells me to shape up, before any real action is taken.

Plus he has a hilarious writing style.

Lucky Strike · Post by **Lucky Strike** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 8:04 am

luang wrote:I am greatly appreciating Heat's 'service' - it's like a little alarm clock that tells me to shape up, before any real action is taken.

Plus he has a hilarious writing style.

In case I wasn't clear ... I appreciate his 'service' as well -- obviously it alerts us to a potential problem and doesn't harm anyone.

And I laugh when I read what he says about other people. I'm not amused when I'm on the list

Heatmiser · Post by **Heatmiser** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:45 am

Here's the deal: When you have a character in the chain who hasn't uploaded in a week, then we have no idea if he passing or failing or what.

Thats the point. The data is a week old. Honestly I don't really want these lengthy posts back and forth about the finer points of chain policy.

We are a clan 1st, and as such your management is more lenient than (I think) we should be about booting people in noncompliance.

Lets get a few things clear: 3.5million+ down and we can boot you without so much as a post on the boards. It can be done in game. Not uploading your info is also a bootable offense. (The chain is only as good as its data. If all data were a week old, then we wouldn't know what the hell is going on.) So yeah, week old data will get you on the slacker list.

As far as posting rules... They're already posted at the top of the page.
Anyone who is not booted when the rules say they can be, should be glad to get one of these warnings. When I post these, I post everybody who is in noncompliance when I look at the page. For some, If I wanted to, I wouldn't have to post anything but removal orders. But I don't roll like that.

(Personal note to follow) LOL

I look at this chain like I look at my employees in the real world. (I own two video stores and a bar.) I treat them fair and don't ask them to do anything I wouldn't do myself and I hate to fire anyone. But when it does happen, there's always a good reason for it.

I guess my point is, your managers will bend but not break. We will only let so much slide before a slacker gets the boot.

Let me put this whole thing in perspective:
Think about this: What if every member of this chain was putting in the same effort as those on our weekly slacker list. Think about it. Over 80 characters. All not uploading or failing. Wouldn't be much of a chain would it?

No. It wouldn't.

The old cliche says a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Other chains just take those links out. We try to make those links stronger. Removal for us is a last resort.

So please, and this is a message for everyone: Do what you have to do to remain in compliance.

Lagmatic · Post by **Lagmatic** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:07 am

The chain is definitely only as good as the currentness of the data. Bad data kills chains, because you never have any clue who is behind or not.

This is not a chain that says you can get behind for a while, then make it up. Our responsibility, as chain participants (note, i am not remotely a chain manager) is to make sure we are always ABOVE quota. If we are always above, and we don't hit failing, then everything is good. Somebody who is way ahead on their quota is probably going to get more room to hang themselves with on update time.

But when you're way close to quota [and I don't know who this may or may not apply to] then you have to update frequently so that people know you're not dragging everybody else down.

Heat has the un-fun job of making sure people don't do this. Hence, the frequent posts on this subject.