Well....someone needs to bring this up...

Retread · Post by **Retread** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:15 am

According to the LttP, the patch is scheduled for next week. That means the chain is effectively dead starting next week. While I know the official chain management word has been that there will be a continuing chain, there are some real issues that need to be faced.

Starting on patch day, there will likely be folks in the chain who will suddenly have to leave to go back to their "old" guilds. They won't wait for an orderly disassembly of the chain. This will leave many folks in new guilds or just orphaned.

An orderly dismantlement should have started 2 weeks prior to patch and I'm being optinistic about the availablility of folks here. I think failure to take action real soon could fragment the guild quite a bit. The threat of being placed on a chain breakers list no longer has much meaning.

Also, given that the patch is so soon, few are going to be real concerned about quota at this point. With the acstats plugin not working and no eta, it's really a moot issue anyway.

Anyway, this is just my suggestion for quick action on re-integrating folks into the guild by formally dismantling the chain from bottom up. This can be as simple as having the bottom person on each chain do one of the following:
1) swear to a guild member.
2) Break and leave guild
3) Stay with current patron.

Each member should post after taking one of above actions and then the person above them does the same. This way, no one is orphaned or taken to a new guild.

Chain managers? What do you think?

Gruhen Do

Allana the Bringer · Post by **Allana the Bringer** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:45 pm

The first thing I have to say on a personal note is WOW. Gru, I don't know about you, but most of the ppl i know in the chain are not only my friends but my family.

Now as a chain manager. I think that this post was extremely out of line. You as everyone else that has read the goings on of the nerf are a bit scared that life as we chainers know it will be gone. It's true. But to give your fellow guildmates so little credit as to think they will break without saying a word amazes me. I'm sure the other managers, as myself, appreciate the faith you have in us. Your comment that blackballing chainers isn't much of a threat? Hate to tell you this, but like us, most of the other chains plan to make the best of what we are given from turbine to continue with.

Since you are the only one that has voiced these thoughts, should we post removal orders for you so you don't have to worry about being orphaned?

There are 2 links to how to update your acstats, one posted before this post, on the acstats updating discussion post, and an Annoucement to the fc and oh made by me earlier this morning.

Allana

Mist · Post by **Mist** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:50 pm

Since I am not in a chain, I perhaps have nothing worth while to say. But I will say this, listening to some people at the mansion this is what I heard that some will go *shrug*, and then I discussed this with Naka. I think this is not a extreme look at what may or could happen. But it is a possibility.

I think for the benefit of all, especially IF it happens, that those beneath a person who may break that don't want to leave, would be able to make proper arrangements before hand and not after the fact. It might be perhaps a good reason to post and find out.

Just my thought on it is all.

Town Crier · Post by **Town Crier** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:53 pm

The first thing I have to say on a personal note is WOW.

What she said!

I really believe that chains will still be here until the day they turn off the last server.... maybe in a totally different format... but that is called 'change and adapt'.

Eveyone is 'concerned', but no ones will know how this is going to go until it happens.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:31 pm

XP chains are, by definition, based on greed for additional XP, and are not based primarily on clan loyalty. If someone has joined one of our chains within the last week or two I wouldn't expect much clan loyalty from them.

For everyone else in the chain though, I would expect at least the common courtesy not to break without warning. Even though many chainers joined because of XP, THIS CLAN has given you millions or billions of XP FOR FREE. It has provided you with a home. It has provided you with buff bots for yourselves or your little characters. It has provided you with quests and quest items, and the list goes on...

I WOULD THINK THE VERY LEAST EACH AND EVERY CHAINER WHO CHOOSES TO LEAVE SHOULD DO IS GIVE THE TIME NEEDED TO LEAVE IN AN ORDERLY FASHION.

XP chains will still exist; they simply won't be as efficient as they are now. The best current guess is we will get probably a third of the XP we currently see. We will have to wait and see how things actually work out. People are in XP chains right now because they want free extra XP coming in. Bailing and going back to an old clan will eliminate whatever XP you would have gotten by staying. Many people are in a chain now because they are simply too lazy to get and keep good vassals. That probably won't change in the future. My guess is that if someone leaves from the chain, they will decide they miss the XP and will want back in.

25 million a day isn't as good as 80 million a day; however, 25 a day is still 750 million XP a month.

One thing I promise: If anyone breaks from our chain without extending the courtesy of allowing us to remove them correctly, they will never be allowed into an LD chain again. I will also recommend to the HC that the chain breaker never be allowed in the monarchy again.

It isn't about XP; it's about breaking and hurting the people below you in the chain who have helped you get whatever XP you have gotten over time. It's about showing a utter lack of respect for Last Dynasty and all of your (former) guildmates.

This post isn't directed at Gruhen Do directly. I don't know if Gruhen was posting his intent or if he was trying to perform a public service. For whoever might be thinking about breaking without letting us release you, this post applies to you. Chain aren't dead, they're just different. We will maintain a chain breaker list and will share with any other monarchies who wish.

luang · Post by **luang** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:51 pm

I'm convinced of this :

1. LD chain members are not only here for the xp.

LD chain is a very good chain, but it's not the best out there. There are others. Pure xp-seekers have left long ago.

LD is a perfect balance between a clan and a chain - it offers you *very* decent chain-xp, AND offers you the benefits of a monarchy and clan. There is a sense of family. People help each other out, go hunt with each other, share treasure with each other...

That's why, come february, the LD chain will not fall apart.

2. LD chain managers are anything but fools.

They have been preparing for the xp-changes for more then a month now. I know there are some extremely clever people in there, that will crack the new system as soon as possible.
They will organise the chain again, in the spirit of the chain as it existed : the right balance between decent xp and clan-feeling.

That's why, come february, you would be stupid to rush off.

anca · Post by **anca** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:07 pm

/e agrees with Luang

Retread · Post by **Retread** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:41 pm

Okay, you may be right, but I just thought that doing something orderly is better than sitting back and doing nothing. I agree that most people in the chain are not people to worry about. But how many does it take to disrupt everything? Just one, right?

But sorry if bringing up the subject upset so many, I'll be quite and play my game.

Gruhen Do

Retread · Post by **Retread** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:41 pm

Extra post

Retread · Post by **Retread** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:41 pm

Extra post

Retread · Post by **Retread** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:50 pm

Oh, and yes, Allana, my plan has been to ask for removal 1 week prior to the change(as I posted a couple weeks back), so please go ahead and post removal orders for me. Thanks.

I have enjoyed my time in the chain and have enjoyed many I have met. And for a large guild, this guild is pretty solid. Again, sorry if my bringing up a topic upset so many.

Gruhen Do

Compadre · Post by **Compadre** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:47 pm

no point in breaking the chain up before patch... might as well get what we can.. additionally, even if someone does get up and break the patch you can just get on the website or /t a friend and say hey, someone meet me at market so i can get sworn back in... it won't be like the hassles of the past.

luang · Post by **luang** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:18 pm

Retread,

You have every right to post this : it is a valid point. The risk of something disrupting happening exists.

But chain managers and high council have their answers ready, and are telling you that there is no need, and no desire, for anyone in the chain to break.

Sweat out the changes, and see how well LD will cope

Lancelore · Post by **Lancelore** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:17 pm

Retread made a very good point. It just need a few to bring the clan in disorder. So it is very valid to bring up this point. HC be glad that there are some members who raise their hand to give a warning for possible difficulties.
I am sure Retread has ment this in a positive way. Embrace these warnings even if you have taken messures or feel different about it.

On the other hand I think there will be some orphanes, but this can be solved very quick.
The greatest danger are the vassals of an orphan. If the orphan does not reswear quickly, the chance the vassals go their own way is there. What impact this will have..... fill it in.

Oof you have my support in dealing with breakers. If they dont have the courtesy to break in a clean way, they dont deserve our courtesy.

Lancelore

Blue Wizard · Post by **Blue Wizard** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:38 pm

My take is patince. Please do not make quick moves untl all of the ramifications can be examined and see what alternatives may be offered.