goodbye LD

dreamsaver · Post by **dreamsaver** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:04 pm

dreamsaver has left LD will still be around tho send me a tell if youd like to hunt see you all.

TUSAMI · Post by **TUSAMI** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:20 pm

Dreamsaver,
Plz don't leave. We would like for you and you're wife to stay. And yes what was done to you was not right. I saw you on everyday asking for kyri or Oof, at mutiple time's of the day. I will still be more than happy to fellow with you. You're a great guy and a great hunter. I wish you would reconsider, but I totally understand if you decide not to come back.
Tusami

Blue Wizard · Post by **Blue Wizard** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:20 pm

Dream, please don't leave over this. I undrstand your feelings and believe it someting that should be brought up to the High Council to address and prevent it from happening again. (If I undrstand most of the problem)

Blue

dreamsaver · Post by **dreamsaver** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:23 pm

well I'll have to think about it for now.I have been a loyal member of LD for a long time,have always made quota always followed the rules went out of my way to help clanmates and in one day get dumped from the chain like this. Feels kinda like a slap in the face.
My wife could have logged me in anytime she's home 24/7 with a work injury all I needed from kyri or Oof was a time to log in ANY time would have been fine but instead I was dumped from the chain and am not even on the list anymore. Its one think to have the chain broken by a member but this was done by chain managers who made a bad decison not by someone breaking the chain where no one has control over it. I see no post saying hurry up log in your getting dumped,all I see is kyri got into the chain and I got dumped with no warning in my opinion thats as bad as someone breaking the chain. Thats really all I have to say. Would rather just stay unguilded for now. Thx tusami and Blue hope to see you all around in VOD would still love to hunt. Sorry this had to end like this but well it wasn't handeled right imo.

Kazsam · Post by **Kazsam** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:54 pm

I hate to see you leave, you have been a loyal person and good clans person, and have indeed helped me on one or more occasion but, I did wait 9 days to get removed foorm chain, and it is not unreasonable that the chain managers had to think of a diff corse of action, as it just wasnt getting done., for whatever reason.

http://www.lastdynasty.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=9404

If you check back laserine did say she'd give it till tues to see some action.

Anyway hope u can soon get sworn back in. and decide to stay.

Blue Wizard · Post by **Blue Wizard** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:59 pm

I was no following closely,

WHY would it take 9 days to make a move?

Kazsam · Post by **Kazsam** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 pm

It took 9 days because dream and kyri kept missing each other, hence why orders were expanded , which unfortunealty left dream out of chain, temporairly.

TUSAMI · Post by **TUSAMI** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:11 pm

Yes, but dream was on everyday and not much effort was made to let him know what was going on. Sorry but that's what I saw.

Laseirna · Post by **Laseirna** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:57 am

I haven't read the other post by Dreamsaver but it took 9 days to release Kero and Kaz and that is too long. In that time I asked several times where the move was at and to my knowledge, only once did Dreamsaver reply. I'm not sure that it was Dreamsaver because the reply was made by a Guest. It didn't actually say it was Dreamsaver.

I followed the rules, plain and simple. If there is any question about the decision I made, please contact Oof and he will respond when he gets back from vacation. If you do not get any satisfaction from that route, please contact the High Council.

I knew I was in a no-win situation over this because I've seen it time and time again on the chain boards and that likely Kyri and/or Dreamsaver would leave the clan even though it plainly states in the chain rules that people can be chained around for not acting in a timely manner to orders. Neither person was removed from the clan and I even made a post apologizing for chaining around them and asked them both to contact me to re-enter the clan. I could do no more at the time.

In terms of any comments about loyalty to the LD and being long time members, well all 4 people involved can claim those titles. Kaz and Kero are also long time members and contribute to the clan. I don't question the loyalty and contributions by Kyri and Dreamsaver either. I followed chain rules, plain and simple.

I recently couldn't meet up with someone in order to allow the release of my patron from the old casual chain and I was chained around. It happens. I'm not a bad person for having that happened and there was nothing malicious about having it done. The manager was following chain rules, plain and simple. I knew I was trying to meet up with this person and was annoyed that it wasn't happening and got annoyed when I was chained around. I don't deny that Dreamsaver was trying too. However I did ask that people post times they could meet up or if there were problems in the move. From my perspective, that wasn't done enough.

I was in a no-win situation and I can't run after everyone to make sure orders are fulfilled. It's annoying as hell to be honest. I cannot know what is happening in terms of problems in meeting up if it's not posted on the boards - and I mean posting continuing problems, not just posting once. If I knew there were continuing problems and that people were trying perhaps I could have gotten patrons and vassals involved. At that point, Dreamsaver was also showing up as needing to upload on the chain page and therefore to my knowledge, Dreamsaver wasn't even logging in. I asked in another post for people to check ACStats and to post if it was showing up as incorrect. Since Dreamsaver didn't post otherwise I could only assume that ACStats was correct.

I'm a casual player and I ask that people communicate problems they are having in the chain via the boards or through PM's. I will do what I can but I can do nothing if I'm not aware of those problems. I will act on the information that I have in front of me when it's time to make decisions. Perhaps this is a lesson to everyone that when involved in moves they most definately MUST check the boards at least once daily to see what's happening in the move.

I hope you reconsider Dreamsaver. I did post a sticky apology and tried to be welcoming back into the chain.

This is my side of the story and even if I've further made people upset by it, well, nothing I can do about that. I've explained my reasoning and I believe I've done my best.

Kyri · Post by **Kyri** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:32 am

I am so sorry this had to happen, Dream. I logged in every day at various times to see whether you were on, but alas, no luck.

I was about to be sworn around as well, when I happened to meet both Evill and Wardite at the same time, and could convince them not to swear around me, thus leaving you out nonetheless.

As for times: I can't guarantee a time that I surely will be on, since my baby son is only two months old and demanding a lot of time. That's why Oof, who is in a totally different timezone, has my login too and can act when I'm asleep.

I sure know how you feel, cos when I heard about being sworn around, my first reaction was to leave LD too, cos I felt I was being treated unjustifiedly. AFter all, all I ever did and tried to do was following orders. Why was I being treated this way then ? But Laseirna is right too: she's only doing what she has to according to the general policy, no matter how harsh that seems.

I will still be looking for you in game, and I hope you will consider being my patron. I'd love that, to be honest (not that I have got a problem with Wardite :-p , but it would feel more right). So please reconsider, as I have done, and let me know. You can always ask Luang or Oof too to act on my behalf.

Wimp Lo · Post by **Wimp Lo** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:13 pm

Having been a manager in a chain for LD for a long time (not currently), I can sympathize with Laseirna. As I read the post about the chain move, I have to agree that dreamsaver did not make any effort to let people know when she/he could be reached in game.

This should be the first step by all parties in a move, respond to the move post and state when you normally play and which characters you play as. If you are available at wider times then state that also.

9 days is too long to take for a chain move when we are supposed to be reading and, by inference, responding to posts that affect us. Laseirna did the right thing under the circumstances and I would expect the high council to back him/her.

It is our responsibility to stay on top of chain moves, not the responsibility of the chain managers to hold our hands throughout the process.

Please note that Laseirna made it clear that it was a temporary chain around in order to release Kaz and Kero. No where did they say that they wanted Dreamsaver gone from the clan.

Frankly, in my opinion, you are over-reacting to an action that could have been avoided if you would have taken a more active interest in completing the move.

Wimp Lo